How the Subconscious Keeps you Addicted | Bruce Lipton & Tommy Rosen

welcome to the recovery 2.0 beyond addiction conference I'm your host Tommy Rosen and today I am simply thrilled to be speaking with Bruce Lipton Bruce Lipton PhD cell biologist and lecture is an internationally recognized leader in the new biology his pioneering research on cloned stem cells priests aged the revolutionary field of epigenetics the new science of how environment and perception control genes his breakthrough Studies on the cell membrane the skin of the cell revealed that the behavior and health of the cell was controlled by the environment findings that were in direct contrast with prevailing Dogma that life is controlled by genes his work has direct implications on the field of addiction and treatment of addiction and we're just thrilled to have him here today in 2009 Bruce received the prestigious boy Peace Award in Japan in honor of a scientific contribution to world harmony Bruce thank you so much for lending your voice to the recovery 2.0 conference welcome tell me I want to thank you so very much and I appreciate all the work you're doing and helping us all evolve and get out of the problems that we're in and take us to a better world so I'm so happy to be here to support your efforts thank you well I want to jump right in I I figured today we could we could look at the roots of addiction and your work in my own recovery my own life and and in helping others your work has directly empowered me to be able to help people get past some of their sort of limitations that we have had and believing what's possible for us so but first let's go back and let's look at the roots of addiction Bruce do you have in your work a general perspective on or a definition or a way that you look at addiction well basically what I have to understand about biology is that throughout evolution biological systems are given information in response to how they how they deal with the world around them and we call them emotions sensations feeling symptoms etc like that one of the major aspects is this is that nature designed to senses of pain and pleasure as a way of teaching an organism to go in the right direction in other words we're smart we go to school we learned you know crossing the street look both ways and all that kind of stuff like that but you got smaller lower forms of life animals that are moving through the world how do they know where to go and where not to go how to do the right thing to stay alive well Nature has endowed them with a sense of feeling and the significance about that is we are given two completely opposite sense as one is pain and one is pleasure when pleasure is received by an organism or perceived by an organism it really represents that you're doing the right thing and that's why nature encourages you says look this is really good go this way but when you start to do something that threatens your survival or it's really not supportive we receive a sensation of pain and that's nature's way of saying look this is threatening to you this is you know inappropriate behavior whatever it is do something different and it's kind of interesting because in our civilization and throughout history that was manipulated a bit by by the original church which looked at pleasure as negative and pain as positive which is like complete turnaround of the table of biology some confusing messages there absolutely but it really causes a profound conflict in our biology when our biology is telling us we're doing something right gives us pleasure and then our psychology is saying no no that's wrong don't do that then we have a conflict between programming and biology and so basically what I see is this is that when we find ourselves in trauma and problems a we try to seek a way to get out if you can't seek a way to get out and you actually do some kind of other behavior or something else to to lessen the pain because if you can't move and you're stuck in pain then what are you supposed to do just living that well in our level of cognition and awareness we can put in some other behavior and and and then actually override the the current experience so what we have to recognize is when people really are generally dealing with an addiction problem they're really first trying to overcome some kind of pain in their life or threat to their survival or their existence and then choose another alternative behavior unfortunately the alternative behaviors don't necessarily take you out of the problem so you stay in the problem but even though you're trying to get mentally out of the problem plus a lot of these other behaviors have destructive elements of their own oh absolutely they're but they're just a way of saying I'm not paying attention I'm not paying attention and therefore I'm living in this dream world but the problem as you just said is the problems that arise from this alternate reality or sometimes a more you know detrimental than the original problem we started with but this so the premise here is that you know essentially people are trying to feel better it's a biological drive you put any organism in a situation where doesn't feel good and it doesn't take a brain as like we have for it to say this isn't right I've got to go find another another way Avenue another way to go to avoid this problem so this is why it's so important is because look we're conscious enough to say look this is the right thing to do this is a wrong thing to do I can teach that to my child this is right this is wrong they will learn that in their in their consciousness lower organisms don't have that that faculty to do that so they're simply create their behavior is really under the control of an environment that says if you're not if it's uncomfortable then go find another place and so it's it's a place of Education yes well so in a sense as you said that term you gave that term lower organism I I think I'm thinking of my next book which could be when human beings behave like lower organisms because you know in a certain sense if you look at a person who's caught in active addiction they have given up the ability to choose they've given up the ability to to be able to decide this is good for me this is not good for me they actually can't follow their biological directive to survive or to thrive that's been thrown out the window basically you know basically they found a way to ameliorate or reduce the pain of the situation and then it becomes habitual why because if I start to feel the same pain again then I'm going to go back and say what was it that allowed me to avoid the pain and now the issue we have to really deal with helmi is that there's two levels of our mind there's the conscious mind and the subconscious mind the conscious mind is the one connected to our personal identity our spirit our source who we are as unique individuals the subconscious mind is more or less a record playback device and the significance about that is in the subconscious mind is habit and that's is completely opposite than the conscious mind which is creative so the conscious mind doesn't fall in a habit that's the subconscious program so what we have to recognize is this and this is the biggest problem not just with addiction this is a problem that is worldwide affecting all of us all the time and that is we believe that we're running our lives based on our wishes and desires by definition a wish and a desire is a creative thought because it's something you don't have but it was something you want so it doesn't exist so you're looking for it the conscious Minds expertise is creativity so the conscious mind is the mind and has our wishes and our desires and what we want for life the subconscious mind habitual programs okay now the interesting aspect about this is if I got you a brand new iPod and I took it out of the box and that little wheel on the front of the iPod called the click wheel it's like the conscious mind it's creative the click wheel says oh I can make a playlist I can change the volume I could push pause play reverse I can control manually control so the click wheels like the conscious mind so I say okay buy a brand new iPod take it out of the box and I say push play on the click wheel nothing happens you say oh you didn't put any programs in there so you can't play something I go this precisely the nature of the mind and its development the conscious mind is equivalent to the click wheel the subconscious – is the equivalent of the memory so the idea is this but if you could talk to a baby the moment is coming out of the birth canal and you and the baby guitar and you say tell me something the the baby I said I don't know anything I just got here I don't know anything and the point about is this until you have experience this until you have insight until you have some kind of working knowledge you can't be creative with your conscious mind so here's the part that people don't understand the first seven years of our lives our brain is in a activity called theta when you put a EG wires on a person's head alpha is a higher vibration that's consciousness theta is a lower vibration it's imagination and this is why kids you know bike between two and seven take the real world and the imaginary world mix them together you say that's a broom they say that's a horse to them it's a horse at that time because that the creative imagination of theta is operating but people don't recognize theta is hypnosis and the reason why we have to have this hypnosis period for seven years is same reason for the iPod I cannot be creative if I have no data so the idea is this I just had a simple question how many rules does it take for person to be a active functional member of a family and a community in a world and you say well oh my god it's thousands of things you have to understand who you are what you are how you interact and I say take an infant sit him down at a desk you know take a three-year-old so you sit down to desk look I have 10,000 rules for you to learn right now to be a member of the Society it's like well that's impractical it's never gonna happen nature overcomes that by automatically putting the brain and theta4 the seven years at which time the child is just downloading other people's behavior and as their own it's just a behavioral this is how you respond to life this is how my dad responds this that my mom responds that's how we do it so seven years I'm putting behavior in into the subconscious mind but into the subconscious mind before I can act a conscious mind doesn't even get activated as a predominant brain state until after seven hasn't come line yet it hasn't come online because I don't have any data in my hard drive to work with so seven years of data well the most important understanding then is the fundamental programs in your subconscious mind are not yours they came from observing other people you observe other people's behavior and then it becomes downloaded through hypnosis theta is yours database okay so now we have a creative conscious mind at seven and you say oh okay good this is my wishes my desires and what I want for life I go great we wake up in the morning you could be ten twenty thirty forty fifty wake up in the morning say okay I'm going out in the world and I'm gonna go seek my wishes and my desires and all that and then we come home every evening and it goes like what didn't get there today and then all of a sudden why this is a problem is because what people have trouble getting to their destination the first thing is this well it's not me I'm the one that wanted to be successful and the world just didn't offer it I am a victim why because I have intended to do something really good but it never showed up hasn't played out that way yeah so what and and the reason why this is problematic is simply this the issue that people don't understand about the conscious creative mind a subconscious mind is this the conscious mind not only is creative but it's not time bound so I say hey tell me what are you doing next Wednesday the moment you start thinking about what you're doing next Wednesday the conscious Minds function is now sent into like a Rolodex in your head where okay what is happening on Monday or Wednesday or whatever you know what and why that's important is simply this if I asked you to tell me what you're doing next Wednesday and something is going on around you at that moment your conscious mind is not paying attention for a simple reason your conscious mind is not there okay well scientists have now revealed this fact which is okay now blow your mind only five percent of the day is the conscious mind running the show for a simple reason ninety-five percent of the day the conscious mind is engaged in thought every time it's thinking it's not paying attention to what's out here it's off in his head okay so here's irrelevance 5% of the day we move toward wishes desires what we want even you know the addict is like yeah I don't want this this is not my life I really want this and and all that and then I say yeah but that only works 5% of the day 95 percent day you're coming from the habit yeah but the habit was other people's behavior that you put into the subconscious first and so 95 percent the day you're not operating from your wishes and desires you're operating from a program sure ok but now here's the catch and then we'll get on to it that is this by definition if I am thinking all of a sudden I say what am i doing next why did I go to my head I'm thinking about what I'm doing what's on Wednesday by definition I'm not paying attention to what's going on so that doesn't mean like you're walking down the street you have a thought and then you freeze while the thought happens and then after the thought then you start walking back down the street again know if you're walking down the street you have a thought the moment you have a conscious mind engaged in thought it the functions are defaulted to the subconscious program so in other words I know how to walk that's a habit I learned that so I don't need my conscious mind to tell me how to walk so my conscious mind goes in thought I'm still walking so whatever behavior I'm doing driving a car I don't have to pay attention to what's going on when I'm driving a car I mean the the joke when I lecture about as I say look you know I've been in a car with a passenger we get so engaged in a conversation my conscious mind is tied up with the conversation and then all of a sudden I look out the window of the car and dawns on me I haven't paid attention to the road for the last five minutes how did I get home and here's what the neat part is what looks driving is once you to practice and learn how to drive practice makes habit habit means that the subconscious mind doesn't need you to explain how to drive and what to watch out for subconscious minds already kind of program so basically seamlessly as I am talking to my my my friend in the car my conscious minds focused on that my subconscious is driving the car okay and I'm not paying attention and and this becomes critical because if I said look let's say it was you Tommy you're driving the car you're in the conversation you just realized you haven't paid attention the road and I ask you two questions I say tell me what the conversation was about you go oh yeah we talked about this and this and this and this and I go tell me what happened on the road during the five minutes and you go I don't know how you see it sure let me tie this into the last little story that will make sense to people now yes and I give us an a lecture and most people respond right away and I say look I'm sure when you were young you were close to a friend you knew your friends behavior very very well and you happen to know your friend's parent and one day you say oh my goodness my friend has the same behavior as their parent so you you know volunteer casually you say hey you know Bill you're just like your dad and you back away from Bill totally ballistic and says how the hell can you compare me to my dad and everyone laughs and I go yeah because everyone's familiar with I said no no the most profound story I can tell you Tommy related to what's going on in a world and from the audience out there most profound stories this everybody else can see that Bill behaves like his dad the only one who doesn't see it is Bill I said explain that I go simple Bill got his behavior from downloading his father's behavior when he was before seven years of age that on his day-by-day basis he's only five percent of the time being aware of what's going on because 95 percent of the time he spent in thought this is the you know understanding of science that means 95 percent of the day he's not paying attention to his own behavior it doesn't even see it it's sort of like driving the car I didn't see what happened and so why is this relevant the profound point of this story is we are all bill every one of us lives ninety five percent the day out of programs and we don't see it rarely we see it went oh my god I just behave like my mother or my father is like you know now we're caught but we saw it but that's infrequent so why is this relevant if I get up during the day and I think I'm going forward to create the wishes and desires of my life that's really great but it only is working 5% of the day 95 percent day I'm gonna play the programs psychologists have told us that 70% or more of these downloaded programs that we got as children are naked of disempowering and self-sabotaging so basically says ninety-five percent of the day your mind is thinking and now you're playing your programs and seventy percent of those are negative and disempowering but you don't see them the roots of addiction right there right there because basically says I'm a victim I wanted to be successful look what happened and so it's the outside that's interfering with me okay so that's very very important so so as we as we reflect on our own personal histories and I can look back on my childhood and I can tell you that there was some difficulty there and and a lot of people have had that almost everybody okay for some reason there's a class of people that end up finding drugs and alcohol or other addictive behaviors and they go after them with their full heart and and in so doing that yeah but not their complete mind sure but there's a group of people that have had difficult childhoods and have come through and have managed to process through it without becoming se addicts of any kind there's another group of people that have succumbed to those old tapes and the ways that they found to get out of those difficult feelings were destructive and addictive in some way and then there's another group of people that maybe they're not complete drug addicts their life doesn't implode because in an addicted behavior but they're still really stuck in old patterns and and they don't process out how what do we do so what's what's the prognosis and that diagnosis here because we if you know that you've gotten these bad patterns and they're in your subconscious and these patterns are running these tapes are running now what's the process for recovery from that okay well the first thing is the programming that gives us our basic behaviors which I said was from actually starts before birth last prime trimester of pregnancy the the fetus is already downloading behavior because it's responding to the mother people don't understand this as when we talk about a fetus developing and a woman we thought oh well it's inside the placenta and the mother's blood comes up to the placenta and the nutrition crosses from the placenta into the the fetus and then the waste product and a fetus goes back to the mother through the blood and everybody talks about well you know oh that's the role of the mother and the old story when I was teaching a medical school was oh look all the mother has to do is provide nutrition because the genetics are going to control the development of this child well that was before the new science of epigenetics which is how environment selects the genes well I said well wait a minute in that case an information from the mother can influence the genes ago absolutely so when we talk about what is the mother providing a she's providing nutrition that's why the standard thing about what advice can you give mothers exercise eat well take vitamins and supplements and that's about all they say like oh yeah but wait we now know that the blood also does it has more than just nutrition in it the blood has emotional chemicals hormones growth factors regulators relevances as the mother is providing nutrition she's also providing information via the emotional chemicals uh and the hormones and what's going on so my mother my mother when she carried me she drank very heavily and she smoked cigarettes very heavily all the way through straight through to nine months that had to have had from what you're saying that had to have had an influence on me absolutely 100% but now there's two levels to that because while you're inside in the fetal development you are directly connected to the experiences of your mother nature designed it this way for simple reason look if I bring a sperm and egg together and create a new child what what's not left in that equation is what's the world like at this time because I have to adapt continuously to the world so nature says look I'm going to put the genes into engagement to make a physical body but what parts of the body should be enhanced or which should be repressed based on the behaviors needed to survive can only be based on what's happening at the moment I can't project I am born and then I have a child 20 years later my eggs or my sperm in my body cannot be connected to what's happening in 20 years so basically nature leaves open the programming part that says when you're developing your mother is experiencing the world in which you're going to be born into so if she can feed you some information first then you can be prepared your physiology in your biology prepared to go jump into the world okay so when your mother was smoking and drinking that was a consequence of some behavioral issue that elicited that smoking and drinking as a practice stress fetus you got both the information that caused the stress that was then relieved by taking the drugs and so you were programmed with what when this stress comes up take a brunt take a drug that's before you even born so that pre-programming is an unfortunate situation because that was put in a system without you consciously being involved and your consciousness wasn't gonna be really involved until about age seven so basically everything up to that point is a program I really want people to understand from layman's terms this this point about epigenetics and and I've looked and I've certainly looked at your work and I and I love it as I said so nature will will pack this being this human being nature will pack it full of the full genetic makeup but which genes end up expressing which genes end up being sort of turned on or turned off if you will has everything to do with the environment around me 100% because we have been as a group as a population have been programmed with the belief that genes control our development and therefore by definition when I was teaching at a medical school because that's what we used to believe what was I teaching I was teaching well look you're you're a victim of your heredity for this simple reason you didn't pick the genes you came with as far as we know if you don't like the traits and characteristics you can't change the genes and then we tell the you know the doctors that's what I was teaching who then tell the patient's look it's not in your control it's genetics and genes turn on and genes turn off and they regulate you well first of all that's completely false thank God genes have no on and off this is the biggest error because you say oh the gene controls I said well how does it gene control it turns on I go no a gene is a blueprint it's exactly what it is don't go any farther than that it's a blueprint to make the protein building box blocks on the body I go wiser relevant I said good go into an architect's office she's working on a blueprint you say it's your blueprint on or off what do you mean on or off it's a blueprint so I don't know if I go precisely because we talked about genes being on and off I say no no genes are blueprints somebody has to read the gene and engage the gene the gene doesn't do it so all of a sudden the fact that we had said genes control things this is a total false understanding the genes respond to environmental signals and that's what allows an organism to stay alive because as environment changes it adjusts the genetics of the individual so that they stay lockstep with the environment ok ok so people who say that you know you know my goodness I've got a lot of alcoholism in my family or you know this addictive pattern of that addictive pattern I'm a sitting duck for addiction because I have the genetic makeup of people coming down from people who are themselves struggling with addiction what do you say it's not the genetic makeup you have the genetic programming ok the programming is which genes are going to be engaged so basically when an organism responds to the environment it takes in information from the environment and adjusts its biology to fit the environment so the genes didn't the genes didn't make any decision in that it was basically response to the environment but I learned responses to the environment so if my mother has a behavior that's repetitious remember I'm the fetus inside that mother her blood is constantly passing through me if she has a repetition in her behavior I chemically can read that as a fetus I can tell when she's stressed when she's happy what's going on if she is repeating a behavior and that's the thing repetition habituation then the fetus learns pattern if it's just a one time shot the fetus is like well I don't know what the heck that was all about but if it repeats the fetus learns a program the program then controls the genes so when you were born you were programmed in fact it's very interesting most people out there seen the movie the matrix and the matrix talks about oh yeah you know this science fiction story about over your program and then you could take the red pill and get out of the program and the significant fact is the the matrix is the more of a documentary than a science fiction story we actually have been programmed and if you don't do anything you will be the program if you just were programmed and you don't make an effort to change the program you will automatically continue the programming we got program in the last trimester of pregnancy by the patterns through our mother's physiology and then once we're born were programmed by hypnosis by observing those teachers called parents and family and we have these programs now the problem with this is these programs are in a subconscious and then I said well what's the problem I said well this is what we talked about earlier Tommy when we said yeah but when subconscious running I'm the one it doesn't see yeah that's right so no controllers have some victims yeah we perceive ourselves as victims so let me ask you this so for anybody who's struggling with addiction and for anyone who's ever struggled with addiction until you reach a bottom and we can talk about what that means in biological terms but before you reach a bottom and are forced to change or or you come to a place where you cannot continue to live the way you've been living but you have no idea what to do next you're at that point what you're saying is that person has basically just been running patterns in a sense they have been a victim only by virtue of the fact that that they've been running subconscious patterns they have been able to get beyond they haven't come to light yet but that once those things are brought to light through a process of recovery we're no longer victims of our heredity we can actually change the patterns that that's the most important thing is a recognizing the pattern and the fact is since I said we play these behaviors when our conscious mind is not paying attention that means even our conscious mind doesn't see the patterns most of the time but occasionally it catches it and then you freak yourself out was like oh a kind of behavior was that but we don't recognize that's not just a you know a rare event that's an everyday event that you just rarely catch vision of yes well so so what can we say what helps a person along in a process of recovery what what are the things that could bring some of these subconscious patterns to light obviously I'm a practitioner of yoga practitioner of meditation these are these are positive lifestyle habits that hopefully help me to bring to light or shine a light on the darkness you know a subconscious behavior is that would you say that's part of the process well the first part of the process is a recognizing there's a problem if you don't recognize a problem then you are just like automatically program like a computer you will run through the paces and your mind will be involved in la-la-land thinking about all kinds of wonderful things as you're sabotaging your complete you know experience on this planet by running these programs that that are self sabotaging yes so until you see a pattern that's not it's not available now the other thing is this one of the most effective ways of dealing it was have people that are close enough that that you can listen to them because was a tendency if somebody says oh you've got this negative pattern the first thing is defensive wall up no no I don't that's what you see that's not real bla bla bla because we want to defend our own integrity but the problem is when other people can see things like I can see that bill behaves like his dad he doesn't see it if I can talk to bill without getting his defenses up and say look you see look what happened how this worked out that that bill can see it logically what's going on there's an opportunity for bill not to put the defense up which means now I'm open to deal with the issue if I put the defense up the issue doesn't exist anymore if I you know take the next drink I can't remember the problem anymore and so the question is can you be open enough to recognize that a you have behavior that you cannot see and other people see it all the time if you can do that that means then you can be open enough to listen to the story without immediately closing everything down and saying you know that's not true and the issue is of course the biggest problem is that the wishes and desires are the conscious mind are not necessarily at all in the programs of the subconscious mind so the conscious minds going to make up every reason why no man you know this is I've been trying to do the best I possibly can I go yeah but if you're only doing it 5% of the day then it's irrelevant heck you're trying to do right so you have to change that so first recognizing the problem this is the big issue yes now obviously one of the things that gets in the way of people moving forward in their life onto a path of recovery is they carry a tremendous amount of shame and guilt yes and I need to address that right now Tommy because this is the most important thing shame guilt blame victim words like that okay people have to understand that that in the definition of these words it means this I can I can be you know ashamed of what I did if I knew there was a right way and I knowingly chose the wrong way in other words I am guilty if I know that this was the right thing to do and with that knowledge decided to do the other thing anyway here's the issue if I didn't know what was going on I had no idea the programming I had no idea the meaning then by definition I cannot use the words blame guilt shame victim why I had no knowledge of it and therefore those words only only apply if you have knowledge if you have no knowledge then you're just playing the game oblivious as to what the consequences are okay and so therefore these words let's say let's say you know for example you're here with me and I say listen Tommy take my car down to the store and get something and it's thick shift you get in the car and say I don't know how to drive stick shift I say here just go dry you call me from downtown saying hey the clutch doesn't work or in the car and do do I say oh I have to be I'm gonna blame you for that and the reality is oh wait a minute you told me you didn't know how to do the car I said go ahead and do it you have no instructions but I encourage you to do it if it messes up it's not your fault is my fault I'm the one who has the knowledge you have no knowledge so I can't blame you but but this yep I'm so so addiction sort of presents an interesting set of circumstances because many people for example people who are chronic relapses no III relapsed many many times in the ER in the early part of my recovery I went there I went back knowing I had knowledge I knew this was not good for me I was in not I was not in denial it was more like I just want to do this and I know yeah but this is important Tommy because at this point now we're still dealing with two Minds your conscious mind is the one who's like this is not what I really want to do like oh that's great five percent of the time the rest of your programming is this is what I have to do that's the habit so the reality is your consciousness was not running a show you were not being mindful mindful is the issue meaning if you stop thinking and just be here then you can see what's going on and you're in total control of the car but the moment you your mind wanders that you put on an autopilot it's just like the plane yeah the pilot has to go take a leak put on an autopilot and it'll come back and other powers programmed to make it stay right where it is okay yes well the issue is this conscious mind is you got your hands on the wheel and subconscious – autopilot 95 percent of the day you're in the autopilot and your conscious mind is more like in the back seat of the car and there's a driver in the front seat and you're saying hey listen turn left turn left that's what I want and then the car turns right it's like say so so how do we deal with somebody in that situation says you you know Bruce on the conscious mind level I knew what I was doing and I knew it was wrong but I I'm still as you said I'm not mindful so I'm not really operating in my full mind in alignment so I still did the behavior and bad things happen and I and now I feel ashamed of myself yeah but you can't feel ashamed of yourself because if you knew how to control this you would have done it and if you had no knowledge how to control it then you're a victim of something out of your control thank you and at that point I'm how do I be responsible thank you so to the people listening out there this is this is a very prominent PhD scientist telling us that there is no room and no place for guilt and shame in in in in addictive behavior once we are mindful once we have moved beyond so I want to talk about that for a minute so I in my recovery I came to a place it took me a couple of years but I did come to a place where I realized I no longer actually was thinking about using drugs and alcohol that that had been lifted from me and I knew that I actually did want to be on a path of recovery and now I was more concerned about alright how am I going to be on this path of recovery and be on it well whereas before I had been still like maybe I want to be on this path maybe I don't I don't really know if I'm gonna make it or or how or even if I want to so that that next level where you finally I would say I became mindful at that point where all of me really actually wanted to be sober um so can you address what is happening at that moment for someone like me well this is the moment where you start to see that the the patterns are playing you you're sitting in the back seat of your vehicle backseat driving and you're wanted to go and it's not going that way and some point you say listen I gotta put my hands on the wheel I gotta do it myself and that's when you start to become mindful but every moment the moment do your mind starts to slip off you will slip back into this program again and the issue about it is a knowing you have a program and seeing it because as I said most people don't see it so that's the biggest problem is because if you don't see you're involved then by definition you're a victim it's not me because I didn't I didn't do anything I said yeah but you did but you didn't see it so you have to become aware and that that's an important part because this is when the blame and the game and all that stuff comes in is well now that you know how it works I cannot fall back on what happened I don't know what happens like no now you know yes now these words are important because now it says yeah I know how it works and I'm not doing anything about it now I am guilty but I didn't know how it worked before I wasn't guilty but now that I know how it works then it's incumbent upon me to make the changes so the good news and there's bad news here as I see it the bad news is what look you've been programmed and the good news is you can change the program well then the good news I would say is that we we actually have some control over our destiny and 100% and the bad news is we have some control over our destiny we're in the driver's seat the interesting part about this is in my book called the honeymoon effect I talked about when people fall in love and how their lives change at that moment all of a sudden they're more healthy than they've been before they have tremendous amount of energy that their behavior is leading through an expression of heaven on earth I've fallen in love and it's heaven on earth and it's like well guess what that was not a coincidence here's what it was it was the first time in most people's lives where they became mindful this is what science has revealed that when we fall in love there's a tendency not to think because if you're thinking then you're not here but if everything you wanted is in front of your face why would you think about it it's like this is what you wanted well why is that relevant if I'm not deferring they're defaulting to my subconscious then during that time period I'm running my life with full conscious control hands on the wheel and what did I create heaven on earth and that's called the honeymoon effect and I go what happens I said well after a while that honeymoon disappears I go why is it disappear because life gets busy we start thinking the moment we start thinking a lot then we start defaulting to the programs well the behaviors that that are in the subconscious came from other people and and up until this moment the partner you've had the honeymoon experience with only saw you creating from conscious wishes and desires both people doing that wishes and desires is heaven on earth a powerful but the moment thought comes into the process then the responses that that occur the behavior that occurs is not coming now from the conscious Minds coming from the subconscious program which is other people's behavior if you would have played some of those behaviors on your first date let's say you may have not had a second date but now they haven't played why because I've been conscious this entire I'm called the honeymoon I've been creating beautiful life and experiences but then I start thinking because I got a job I got to pay the rent I got to do the chores and my partner comes up and asked me a loving question and we've had this great heaven on earth thing going because both conscious Minds have been engaged and at this moment I'm thinking and she comes up and asked me a simple loving question and I turn her and go blah blah and she looks at me and goes who are you right how are you this guy before well yeah but this is an instructive thing because basically says well what happens it says this that the person who just I just played bla bla bla my partner looks at me who was you know like something's wrong and I'm looking at her like what are you talking about point when I did bla bla bla I did that from automatic behavior I played my father's behavior I didn't even see it that's like Bill I what do you mean my father's behavior right well the problem is if I didn't see it what I did and my partner saw what I did and I you know in the conventional world thinking what the hell is she talking about at that point you can see all of a sudden the communication lines are completely down it's not gonna work anymore well this is how relationships end and you know I think really important to realize for people in our society that if you hold on to this idea of say soulmate or or the honeymoon should last forever when you come to that first bump in the road and you you fall out of that that heaven on earth syndrome that you spoke of if you don't know that that's part of the natural cycles of a relationship and it's going to come and it's going to go and our our job is to bring mindfulness to it then the first time or maybe the second time it happens you're like I'm out of here that's exactly I'm not exactly 50% of marriages end that way because people don't realize the behavior they play after the honeymoon starts to wane because they start thinking is not them it's other people's behavior and they're invisible it's invisible to them and therefore they're trying to figure out what's wrong with my partner who is mad at me what did I do it's like yeah what you did is what you didn't see what you did if we now have knowledge of that you say without knowledge that's what led to oh my god what kind of behavior is that do I want to be with this person with that kind of behavior that's when compromises come in and that's what really ruins a marriage because it says well that behavior really sucks but the rest of its pretty good and so I compromise I know that this person gets angry and violent at some point okay but that's just rare and the point about it is well wait a minute you compromise and and this is not the relationship you signed it on for and as every new behavior starts to unfold because they've been in the back waiting for my mind to wander to show up as each one starts to show up these is another opportunity for another compromise and the point is you know there's so many compromises as you just said and there's a point well that's too many compromises now it's all over and then both people are they're like what happened this started out so beautifully as opposed to working through those issues as they come up in a conscious manner often with a third party present right and the problem with us as the you know the recipient of the anger of our partner about our behavior without us knowing we even did the behavior mmm is the problem so now I said look now we become aware of this why is it relevant because if the behavior shows up and I'm aware of it that I have behaviors that are invisible and my partner brings it to my attention rather than conflict I'd have to own Jizo maybe I did do that you know oh my god I'm sorry well what happens is every time it comes up if my partner just gently says oh that's that behavior again every time it comes up and I stop it I'm creating a new habit and that which ultimately says the new habit replaces the old habit the negative thing that was there all of a sudden every time I read if it's I stopped it the the mind begins to learn don't play that behavior I got a new behavior and that's how we rewrite I want to I want to talk a little bit for our last bit of this chat we're having today about 12-step programs and the the reason why they are successful and when they work the best and but they also have a negative negative connotation to them I want to I want to look at I want to get your opinion all this because I have many opinions on this and I talk and write a lot about it but I'd like to hear your perspective on it you know well let's just say here the 12-step programs are good because they say draw be more mindful that's what it says be mindful start to see what's going on because if you stop if you don't look at what's going on then everything is an accident in your life everything I'm the victim so it's a wake-up call to say look you're paying if you pay attention you can do something about it if you don't pay attention your mind wanders then you're back into the automatic program again the unfortunate side of 12-step programs as many of them tell a person that's a totally defective and and program them to be defective it says like alcoholism is like oh you take that drink one drink and before you're on the you know out on the street again well the problem is every time they hear that what are they creating a new habit so the new habit is if I drink then I'm out on the street and unconsciously by repeating that pattern that says I'm a defect and that and that this is going to happen to me allows the program to be created that offers me an opportunity to understand that oh I took that one drink now I'm out on the street or now I have to take it all the way and I'm gonna I'm going to behave in such a way where I land on the street right that's that again is making a person a victim of something that it's a program why is important if it was genes that controlled you if it was and they're not and I said genes control your life then by definition I can say you can be a victim why because you can pick the genes and that's what you ended up with them sorry your genes are giving you this problem but it turns out genes are only responsible about one percent of disease and then the rest of it is programming rewrite rewrite the language for me in other words that's that that's the issue what would you what would you what would you say to improve and to not put that negative pattern that negative thought pattern into someone's head how would you rephrase that phrase you've had you've had this drink what we know what do you what are we teaching people really well right now the way we're teaching them is if you if you cross the line I'm sorry you're lost and that's unfortunate situation because if I do get pushed and I do cross the line and my program gets engaged it's like oh my goodness I just crossed the line the rest of the program is oh now I'm lost and then all of a sudden boom they're gone out of the system if we would stop teaching that there was a mechanical reason for your victimization and understand that it's a programming reason for your victimization then I have freedom to change the programming if it's mechanical then I'm just a victim of the mechanics and that turns out but that's not true we bought it as mechanical because everything was controlled by genes when these 12-step programs were introduced so all of a sudden oh yeah the genes did it that just would have been science but today's world that's totally false because we know the genes don't do that the program does that and so what I would start to be teaching is you have been programmed you are living in the matrix you need to take the red pill and the red pill is get out of the programming and the idea is if I can tell you how to get out of the programming then I can help you but here's the biggest problem then second okay I got some bad behavior they say oh well how are you going to change the program oh well I'm going to tell you about your bad behavior and then you're gonna have an awareness and I go this is the crux of the problem there are two minds we talked about a conscious mind you spirit that's your creative mind self conscious mind habits and programs well guess what they don't learn in the same way the conscious Minds creative that's the character of it so it says look I can go to a lecture I can watch a video I could read a book go on a workshop the workshop and I'm gonna educate my conscious mind oh yeah that's exactly our work conscious mind could just go AHA and learn something okay the subconscious mind does not learn in that way that's why when I say it's on my lectures I say okay how many people in here read a self-help book and all the hands go up I say okay now how many of you your lives changed after you read the self-help book all the hands go back down I said what's this only issue assist you your conscious mind the creative mind by reading a book but the subconscious mind doesn't learn that way and it's very important it's resistant to change why if I learned a habit I don't want it to change every day if I learned how to I don't want to have to relearn how to walk all the time if I learned how to do it then fine so that basically says then the subconscious mind is resistant to change I say number one so what what happens how does it do it like if you're if you're I have to go back and say well how did you educate the conscious mind the subconscious mind the first place I go first seven years hypnosis that's what the brain was in theta was just downloading programs bypassing consciousness conscious our conscious minds did not filter the download of the programs and it's a good program and bad program what conscious mind wasn't working when the downloads were going so I just got programs conscious mine wasn't even there doesn't even have any idea of it so see me the next issue is this okay your brain is in hypnosis for first seven years but your subconscious still learns programs after your seven I said how does it learn it then I go oh habituation repetition repeat the behavior over and over and over again well that is another that's a healthy behavior or an unhealthy behavior you'll learn a new pattern depending on what you practice absolutely because the the function that mind is to take pattern that is replayed over and over again and then acquired that's why look you want to learn how to drive a car practice drive a car you want go back this one this is a learning our ABCs go back to your childhood how long did it take you to get from A to Z the answer was how many times did you start ABC ABCDE and then you repeated it you repeated it you repeated it and finally you got to Z what was the result I never had to do it again I have bitchu ended it because I repeated it over and over and over again that's how I learned how many times did I repeat the time stable in school whatever issue on a job I learned to do the job I learned how to communicate all these different things so basically how'd you do that repetition after the the first seven years which is hypnosis so the idea is this if you go and just educate the conscious mind that's great most everybody's conscious mind super allocated I know exactly right there but my life doesn't follow it I go yeah because you're not operating from that mind and the awareness and that not mind does not translate into a change in the subconscious because it's not the way the subconscious learned yes so want to change then you've got to say well how does it do it there are our four ways that the subconscious mind can be rewritten one of them you can't even control so we can bring it up right now because you've experienced it yourself and that is you get into put a life situation where and you realize I can't do this anymore it's nothing you can control it's sort of like you go to the doctor and the doctor all of a sudden sits across the desk and says you have a terminal disease boom it hit you in the head and it's like oh my god my whole life has led to this and that's an open moment where all of a sudden you can change your behavior but the problem with that is you can't control it I can't control when that happens real awakening yeah so we put that in a separate category it occurs but I can't do anything about it now at least to me there are three remaining ways like well what's one way well I say hypnosis you say well okay when I was a kid my brain was operating at that frequency and that's how I download it now I'm an adult what happens down when I go every day as you go to bed at night or when you're waking up in the morning you pass through theta for a simple reason sleeping is the lowest vibration called delta theta it's the next one consciousness is alpha and the higher one is beta which is super you know working consciousness you're working up here and beta on your job when you come home at night you start to relax and you start to go into alpha relaxing okay as you start to drift off into sleep you're going from alpha into theta so it's it's called Twilight reverie and the significance about that is that means as you're passing from being alert to going to sleep which is Delta you must pass through theta so as you're going to bed at night if you put your phones on and have a tape that's playing as you're going from alpha and you start to relax and you start to go into theta the tape is playing your conscious mind is not paying attention really now it's really offline the subconscious is listening to the tape so every night as you go to bed you put the earphones on you will pass through theta and you will be directly downloading a new program into your subconscious that's one way okay number two the second way we learn is as a situation and so the idea is the more you make a habit of something and repeat it and and this is what people have to understand putting a sticky note on the refrigerator is more like a wish it's not a repetition it's just like oh every now and then I say oh yeah there's that note it's like that's not making a habit habit is you engage in and you practice it and you're repeated and you're Peter like going to 90 meetings in 90 days for example yeah you're making a pattern and and once you start to see the pattern and it repeats itself there's an opportunity then that that's how the subconscious mind learns okay the third way is exciting because it's something brand-new and that is it's called them collectively referred to as energy psychology or belief modification and what it really wreck it's a these are processes that engage a super learning you say what's super learn I said well have you ever seen anybody read a book with their finger they just go down the page read the page as fast as the finger moves they're reading okay that's a concept of super learning okay well the significance about that that can be applied to changing subconscious programs so many of these belief modalities that are that are changing beliefs get you into a state of super learning give you new program and ten minutes later you've got a new program and this is really exciting and it's I I look at it as that that story about necessity is the mother of invention it's like we have a necessity to change now because we are in a very threatened world situation and we've got to change their behavior quickly so necessity leads to these new modalities and and they're very effective and the one that I'm familiar with is the one that I use my own self to get out of my old life and into my new life is one called psych-k now what's interesting about it for years like all the other modalities that are similar it's like you go through a you know a change of belief and then you go oh yeah I feel much better my life is much better and that's all anecdote but recently now there's been brain mapping studies to show that what a person does like a psyche a balance the brain changes in ten minutes in a way that there's no that the people that are studying this have never seen this in any other form so this is opening up a new doorway yes I mean understand I'm very interested I have no personal experience with it but I'd like to give it a try well this is very exciting because of course I have personal experience with it because I you know I had to change my life in many different ways and once I understood this it for me it was very personal for a very simple reason Here I am giving lectures all around the world about how genes don't control life how programming controls life and then at the end of every lecture you know because I start off with a whole molecular thing and get to oh yeah the programming and then the first question always at the end of my lectures how do I change the program I go that's not my job and one lecture I was getting Colorado I was then same thing and I get very upset because I'm real excited about the science part and everybody says oh okay that's nice show me how to change the program it's sort of like so I'm walking back with my computer after my presentation and I hear the guy behind me say I'm gonna show you how to change those beliefs and I thought okay I'll watch and I saw him he asked who wants to have a belief change of course almost everybody's hand in a room went up there was one woman whose hand was up and down and up and down I saw her and my friend Rob who was presenting saw her and said okay tell us your name and what the problem is and in the middle of ordinance of three or four hundred people he said tell us your name problem and she the words came out of her mouth she just got read he had to go in the audience and find out well her name is Pauline and her problem is she can't talk in public it was like well that's pretty damn obvious isn't it she could even say her name so he goes through this process one of these and it's not the only one there many of them my website has a whole listing of him took ten minutes and at the end of dealing this process she was sitting in a chair and he says okay let's stand up he turns her around his arm is on her shoulder and says well Pauline would you like to tell the audience about this experience he just had well she took the mic and started walking back and forth giving a lecture that the joke Rob had to sale is appalling please sit down you using up my lecture time and all that and everybody like myself in the audience was oh my god here's a woman ten minutes ago couldn't say your name now he asked I asked her to sit down and be quiet because she's talking so much so this is called psych-k like psychology preview agent – K which is psychological kinesiology psy CH – K calm oh and that's just one of many one of many it's just the one I'm familiar with but then I've listed on my website a lot of them they're also similar to a certain degree because their way of opening up the record it's like pushing a record button that we couldn't have done in any other way but you get its actually I think it involves getting right and left brain hemispheres just fires and synchrony yes which is a super learning process I love it amazing and now now unfortunately we're coming to the end of our hour together but I'm wondering if you could I know it's crazy could you could you um give your message of hope to people who are watching this who may be struggling or struggling with addiction or people who are on a path of recovery but still don't feel like they're quite where they want to be yet yeah what would you say to these people well the first thing I have to say is look everyone's familiar with the phrase called knowledge is power and I say oh that's very interesting but let me give you the corollary because that's more personal I say a lack of knowledge is a lack of power when we have been deprived of the knowledge of how things work and we're trying to make it work and nobody gave you instructions or anything basic it's like well now it's trial and error and again we go back to the driving thing if nobody ever gave you driver instruction says get in a car and drive you probably destroy the car before you really get it on the road the idea is we have new knowledge and the knowledge is critical because it it explains the invisible part the invisible part was the misleading part if I didn't see I was engaged in my own sabotage then by definition I'm not going to blame me I'm gonna say the world is not supporting me the universe is not supporting me why I didn't say I was involved but now we have this knowledge and now it says okay look we have to transition from lack of knowledge to this new knowledge and when you have this knowledge knowledge is power then we have the power to make the changes if you have no knowledge of what we just talked about during the last hour you'd be oblivious as to what the hell is going on I'm making my effort and I'm going yeah but you see you didn't know that that only applied to 5% of the time and it didn't change the subconscious program because the moment you're not gonna pay attention you will default automatically and and that's where the concept the victim comes in are going cheese that's an unfortunate situation and you know what's really interesting and you know because it bothers me a lot is that the idea of being programmed and controlling your life is not new this this understanding has been around 500 years the Jesuits would say give me a boy until it's seven and I will show you the man what they understood is if I get your programming they even know seven years they said if I get seven years if I put the programs in you in seven years I don't care what your personal wishes and desires are you're going to be whatever I made the program yes well we've all been programmed and that's why the matrix as I said is really a documentary we've all been programmed some of us really have bad programs but the significance is to the leadership of the world they don't care right but we we as individuals thanks to your work are becoming aware of the fact that we can change that programming that there is a choice that we're not a victim of our heredity or our genetic makeup yes that our beliefs our actions are our inputs can can have a major effect on our life and we can we can turn ourselves around absolutely we're just more powerful than we thought but if I don't teach you how it works and then you're completely invalidated in your attempt to be you know to take control because you didn't see how it was done yes thank you so much Bruce um can you direct people to your work how can they interact mostly simple yes very simple ww bruce lipton calm there's lots of resources under under the resources as I said there's a whole listing of all these other modalities for for changing psychology but I also have lots of articles and things to em loaded and resources so there's a tremendous amount of literature available for free just to download it to give us more awareness of who we are and how and how we work I cannot thank you enough for lending your voice to recovery 2.0 conference this year thank you so much Bruce Tommy thank you and I want to thank your audience because everybody who who really puts an interest in to do something can change themselves in the world and so this is a wonderful platform to offer new knowledge to people in need thank you very much and to you be well thank you


  1. I’ve been in recovery for seven years and it was in recovery that I discovered Dr Bruce, Dr joe and Gregg Braden, and they changed my world. I refer to AA as my spiritual kindergarten, it opened a door and made me want more. So I went looking and discovered these amazing men. Thank you 🙏 tommy Rosen 💕

  2. Love Bruce his info but he is very wrong about the whole pain THING. CONTROLLED PAIN = HEALING AND GROWTH.
    Chronic pain however is indeed terrible.

  3. Thanks Tommy for posting this on YouTube so more people can get access to it. We need more people like Dr. Lipton out there backing up what the Yogis have known for a long time with western science so more people can get on board with this movement of a holistic approach, not just with recovery, but with life.

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