What Life In Post-Roe America Will Be Like



Sam cedar on the majority report on the phone it's a pleasure to welcome to the program independent journalist and author of handbook for a post ro America Rob and Marty Robin welcome to the show you know I I'm fascinated by this because I think I certainly after Cavanagh but before that I think it was a fairly safe assumption that we are headed to a an era where if not directly overturned roe v wade certainly the right curtail certainly the right curtailed in in such a matter as to be effectively overturned just yeah I suspect that's your belief the intention is that Roe is going to be overturned in which case we have at least fifteen states that will make abortion completely illegal we have about ten states that will make abortion completely legal and the rest will fall in between but what's really interesting right now is if you watch this surge of so-called heartbeat bands that are happening in states across the country those are all failsafe bills and what they are is they are an attempt to make sure that if for some reason the Supreme Court does not decide to overturn roe v wade they can still essentially ban abortion in their states what they're playing on is this idea that the supreme court could potentially say all right we are going to keep abortion legal all throughout the United States however states can do whatever it is they want to do as long as they do not officially completely ban abortion so with that happening that's why we're seeing Mississippi um Louisiana just introduced one now every state in the south in the Gulf area and then many of them through the Midwest are all doing these heartbeat bans knowing that if the Roe is upheld an abortion stays legal they can still basically ban it completely within their states and I noticed that today I guess or maybe it was yesterday that a Alabama at least passed the House of Representatives a bill making it a crime for a doctor to perform an abortion and I would imagine also we're gonna see like trap laws right like these the you know anything that makes it just that much harder to from a practical standpoint to provide an abortion will be found to be the the scrutiny in which a state's restriction or regulations around it will be lowered the scrutiny will be lowered and and and therefore this is just going to be chipped away I mean there this is almost inevitable it's just really question of like how blatant right and we're not even two years out from the Supreme Court saying that trap laws are not constitutional we already had the ruling and whole women's health the Heller said in 2016 that said no you cannot use um regulations or use extra scrutiny on doctors in order to close abortion clinics and make abortion inaccessible despite this fact we've had the Fifth Circuit in Louisiana say you know what I think we should go ahead and revisit that and so we're still waiting for this new makeup of the Supreme Court to decide whether they're going to uphold whole women's health or if they're just gonna toss that one aside as well and and just to be clear the trap laws and and the the Heller said I think was in Texas and I can't remember if that was the physicians needed admission rights into a local hospital or but there's other stuff to the effect of like abortion clinics need to have 11-foot ceilings or something to that right I mean both of those were unconstitutional however we've already seen other states that are trying to go around it in other directions one really good example is that few people have noticed that in Ohio more than half of the state's clinics have closed over the last five years and that has happened because what they're doing is they have transfer agreements which are essentially the same thing as this admitting-privileges law but the Board of Health is shutting down one one by one and because of that there has been no scrutiny over this because there is no point in which they say that they've actually reached an undue burden yet so because they do it one by one they can keep going and then when the court finally says okay that at one Clinic was too many and now it's an undue burden to the right to access an abortion then they're basically as close as they could be without going over okay so now my understanding is that you you think that the that an overturning of Roe would be a good thing is that relative to you know the the essentially what we what we're we're seeing in Ohio or these these sort of like when it's chipped away it's hard you know there's no headline of the day there's no it's very hard to rally people around in Ohio that one by one the health inspector is shutting down these clinics and so it's very difficult to sort of like make people aware of how this right is being taken away and inter alia gets it yeah because one of the things that we've already seen on the ground is especially since but even before that it's been nearly impossible for many communities especially rural communities and communities of color and communities of low economic standing to be able to access abortion as it is it's too expensive there's too many hoops to jump through all of these things make it too hard for people who need abortions to bevel to get to them yet abortion is still legal in all of these places what we need are these really big wake-up calls that will help make people who are less affected by abortion restrictions understand that this is a fight that they have to have and be engaged with now and we saw that immediately after Trump was elected when millions of women came out not just in DC but across the country and marched in order to say no you are not gonna take our rights away right now and then we saw it again when people came out when Cavanaugh was up for a 4:00 appointment and people were coming into DC and they were being arrested there was this huge moment where everybody understood this is a point of change I believe personally that in a lot of cases it is too hard for people to access abortion it's why we are seeing so much of an uptick of people trying to access it by buying medication online people trying to do things themselves people already leaving States in order to get to other states in order to get care should we hit a point where row is officially overturned and people understand okay these states do not have any care whatsoever and we're talking about not just like a state here or a state there but an entire swath of the country that is going to have no care basically from the edge of New Mexico all the way out to Florida there will be no legal abortion there when that happens it's unavoidable when that happens it's a rallying point and unfortunately I feel like although activists right now are doing so much good to try and make sure that people are getting access there's just only so much that can be done until the people of privilege really recognize that this is a problem and step up all right well that's I mean that seems to me to be a big dilemma to even in the event that Roe is overturned or even in the I think the worst case the worser case as it were that it is de facto overturned but in it but nominally not overturned which is that you know when we talk about Alabama when we talk about Mississippi when we talk about Missouri we talk about you know Louisiana we're talking about like you say women who are maybe living in poverty and don't have access to this care when we talk about the states where it will still be legal we're talking about the bigger of the wealthier states right where presumably folks of privilege are our living and will not have the same experience because it won't be in the local news it won't be in the the you know to the extent that it's even in the national news because the national media is centered around those areas where abortion will vary more than likely but still be legal how does that word get out I mean effectively now there's couple of states like you say where where abortion is almost effectively unattainable but yet very few people are conscious of that so what we do is make sure that abortion becomes a much bigger platform especially when we head into the 2020 elections we need to make sure that every candidate knows how to answer questions about abortion one of the things that is going to be probably the biggest factor of 2020 is the fact that the right has already decided that they are going to define everything by infanticide but they are going to only talk about abortion as it comes to third trimester abortions and they're going to conflate everything that happens after a first trimester should be a so-called late term abortion which does not exist our politicians need to know how to talk about this they need to know how to talk about abortion as a right fit belongs to everyone and that isn't just something that people unfortunately have to have that it needs to be considered a part of healthcare it can't be divorced from it and in a lot of ways it needs not just to be clinic based because regardless of what happens with abortion law as long as abortion can only exist by going to an abortion clinic rather than through purchasing online doing teleMed as long as it's restricted to just a clinic then the Wrights knows that all they have to do is close a clinic be it through regulations through zoning through violence if they can close a clinics and they can cut off healthcare access we need to be sure that everybody understands that this is not just a rural problem or not just a Midwest or a South this is how they will close clinics in New York this is how they will close clinics in California they will close clinics everywhere because all it takes is to take them out one by one and no one will have care we need to expand access beyond just clinics okay I want to circle back to that but let's start with the question of late term abortion and infanticide I am very confident that that there's nobody who supports the idea of of just deciding after the birth of a child that you can wrap it up I think as Donald Trump said it the at a rally the other night in Ohio wrap it up and then decide to kill it killed the baby that doesn't happen when we talk about when people say late term abortion we're talking about dilation and extraction explain to us what that process is and give us some numbers here because I mean it seems to me that there are and tell me if I'm wrong my understanding is that there are third trimester abortions that take place when a mother maybe wasn't unable to get an abortion earlier was unaware that she was pregnant I mean they're extremely rare but they do happen when a woman's health is not necessarily implicated just discuss that I mean what into the to the extent that they exist so the first thing that we have to talk about is we have to straighten out all of our terms there's no such thing as late term abortion because term means 40 weeks and so late term would be after 40 weeks so that does not exist when we are talking from a progressive standpoint and we use the term late term abortion even though we shouldn't be what we are usually trying to reference is the idea of third trimester abortion right the first thing we have to understand is that when the right is saying late term abortion they are in fact referring to anything after the first trimester so that is how things are getting conflated and how you're finding stories of then they'll start to say okay well look at all these statistics about abortions after 20 weeks and why people have them the thing is 20 weeks is not viability 24 weeks is the point in which science believes that viability is a likelihood and viability is the point in which with medical care if there is a 50% chance of survival in order to live outside the womb so we're already talking on different levels of definition and those have to be straightened out when you get to a third trimester abortion a third trimester abortion is almost always going to be a labor induction there is not Diani dilation and evacuation because at that point the fetus is too developed to do that um so when when we are having a third trimester abortion it's going to be a labor induction that would be the third trimester abortion would be the only point in which yes it could be possible that a fetus that is born at that point would survive the abortion but because of the way that the procedure is done fetal demise is always done first so first there would be an injection to the heart they would make sure that there was no longer a heartbeat and they would do all that before any sort of process to open up the cervix and then induce the labor so when we're looking at third trimester abortions or Trebor shion's after viability they are in that case always going to be because of the help of a pregnant person or because of a a fetal anomaly we do not have elected third trimester abortions it just doesn't happen does it is it is it is it illegal or are you saying it just doesn't happen like you Roe you are allowed to have abortion in the first trimester you are allowed to have abortion in the second trimester for special indications and in the third trimester it is only for the physical or mental health of the person who is carrying it mental health in almost all circumstances refers to okay there's a fetus with an anomaly it is more detrimental to this person to be able to be forced to carry to term and give birth to this than to just go ahead and end the pregnancy okay fair enough I mean so that I mean that I think it's important for people to really understand because as you say there's a lot of conflation of a lot of different is they'll start talking about okay so we're having late abortions and look here are the stats it's say here are these people 20 who have abortions after 20 weeks that say it's because they couldn't access a clinic early enough or say that it was because they didn't know they were pregnant all of these other things but they're talking about statistics that aren't specifically for the third trimester they're talking about statistics that are any point after the twenty twenty weeks and so because of that they're complaining second trimester third trimester abortions which are done under completely different circumstances and laws and we should also add that these abortions take place essentially after consultation with a doctor between a doctor and their patient right I mean this is not like you don't just go in and you know go online and register for it like you're going in for you know a I guess you know I don't know a haircut or something and you you are actually in consultation particularly in the context of the third trimester with a doctor to assess whether your need for an abortion crosses that threshold exactly and if we want to talk specifically about the New York abortion law which is where this whole thing got started the thing that a lot of people have lost track of is that when New York passed their new abortion law what they were doing is they were allowing people who were in the third trimester to be able to obtain abortions with just one doctor saying that it was okay to have an abortion because before that it took three doctors saying that it was okay to have an abortion I'm sorry not New York in Virginia Bob that they fought over and then it got stalled because that was the only change they were trying to make it wasn't even hey you can have an elective third trimester abortion it was you only need to get one doctor to consent to this abortion you don't need a full panel and this whole idea of a panel approving an abortion goes back to the days pre Roe when people were trying to get abortions and they were illegal and so you had to go up to a hospital and give them the entire story of why abortion mattered for you but not for being legal for everybody and so in a lot of ways it just goes harkens back to this age of it's not that we want to make sure that abortion can't be had by any but it's just we want to be able to pick and choose whether we think that your abortion is valid or not okay so with that clarified let's talk about what we're looking at in a and I think it's it becomes it's a little bit easier it's a little bit more low-hanging the fruit as it were if you know a Supreme Court says we're overturning roe v wade end of story forget about it completely thrown to the state's anywhere that they want to ban abortions totally they can do it that's a little bit easier to imagine what happens if it doesn't happen that way if it's simply like it's okay for states to pass trap laws that we're just not going to give that measure of scrutiny what what all right now we're getting into the handbook a little bit what do we do as as women what do we do as men in the context of you know activists and also people who need this health procedure over and over again is the idea that we are not in is nearly dire of straits as we think that we are because there is a system that is already out there and already exists already networks people together in order to make sure that people can get from one state to another state if a person needs abortion care reproductive justice groups have been doing this work on the ground for decades already and they've been doing it with little resources in their communities helping their own communities because they know them best so what we have are abortion funds we have practical support groups we have clinic escorts we have all of these people on the ground especially in low access states who know how to get somebody to a different clinic how to put them up in a home how to drive them to a different place these are all places that exist and that as activists if we are new to the movement and want to do something to help we can find them and plug our selves into already existing work this is good because it means that we do not have to spend the resources to try and create an entire it's already out there so as people who are seeking out abortions the first thing that we're going to need to do is it's best to try and figure out ahead of time some sort of plan um one of the things that I recommend is that people try to figure out where their nearest of washing clinic is going to be what sort of restrictions might be there how much money they might need for an abortion another thing that I tell a lot of people right now to be completely honest is it is not a bad idea to treat medication abortion like you would emergency contraception the biggest problem with medication abortion at this moment isn't that it's a health risk because it's not um it's that it is a legal risk and especially in states where a person could be it could be under investigation for having a miscarriage that could be a problem for you however the other big problem right now is the fact that getting that medication online can take a long time the FDA is already cracking down on places that are offering it in to people in the United States those are closing new ones have popped up but even still we're seeing that it can take four to six weeks for somebody to get medication that orders it online and and you have to trust it right I mean it's it's I mean it's it I mean it yeah III think these things are imminently trustable and certainly but you don't know the agency right you don't have that presumption that you have you know within the states I guess they're on vetted information to make sure that so they order pills themselves in order to test the materials that come through see how long things are gonna take make sure that they do actually provide what they say that they're going to provide plan C is a group that does that online and they have a report card and they update the report card as different pharmacies disappear and other pharmacies pop up again it's still a long waiting period and so I often tell people that if they think that this might be something that they will need to do down the road it does not hurt to purchase pills off of a vetted supplier on the plan C report card have that medication in case you need it and if you do not somebody else might need it and then you can get it to them in a timely manner and you can purchase another one yourself um I don't see any reason why medication abortion should not be treated in the same way as emergency contraception in Canada now they have decided that they no longer need to have an ultrasound before a person takes medication abortion um and in the United States there is absolutely no concern about medical risks other than the fact that a person who might have complications could feel insecure about the idea of going in for follow-up care um in which case they just need to know that there is nothing that they have taken that will show up in blood work or urine work and that all they need to say is I think I'm pregnant I think I'm having a miscarriage and I'm scared right and and let's talk just a little bit about I think the you know the the general preference for clinics and surgical procedures in the context of abortion because that is I mean it just seems culturally that is what we're used to I mean and and and what is I mean what do we do about that yeah there is a lot of benefits to having a vacuum aspiration rather than a medication abortion for one thing it's a lot easier it's a it's not it's not more medically unsafe if that makes sense so it's if done in the clinic it's very safe um it's quick and it's done and there is a lot of there's a lot of mental mental well-being to the fact of knowing that you go into a clinic and you come out and you're not pregnant whereas with medication abortion you are involved in in that abortion you it will take a while it will be lots of blood it will be a labor a miscarriage so yes there is a huge advantage for a lot of people in being able to access a clinic and be able to get a safe vacuum aspiration abortion and also medication abortion does not work as well when a person is in the second trimester so that's another advantage we need to work as hard possible to keep our clinics open and one of the things that we're seeing right now that is actually really making me feel a lot better than I if you would talk to me six months ago are things like Kansa the state of Kansas just reaffirmed that the state constitution it says there is a right to an abortion so as long as the state is not capable of amending their constitution Kansas will have abortion regardless of what happens federally the same rights as long as that is not amended Iowa will have the right to an abortion we're seeing more states that we did not expect to keep a right to an abortion find that their state constitutions have it is there a is there a provision or I guess I mean is there I wonder about the concept of clinics that are designed specifically to receive women who have begun a medically induced abortion so that was actually something that we saw happen quite a bit in Texas when the clinic's had all closed especially when the clinics in the Rio Grande Valley had closed El Paso ended up with a clinic that was open solely for people who had begun who were experiencing any sort of miscarriage issue and one of the things that I want to make really clear is the fact that if a person is having a miscarriage they do not have to go into a hospital an abortion clinic can help them as well and can probably do it much more cheaply it's just it's not something that people who are pregnant with wanted pregnancies tend to think about so um what would happen is that yes people who were trying to induce on their own would begin to bleed would get concerned and would go into this clinic in El Paso and they were able to finish it up with a vacuum aspiration that's a thing that could work and really should be in existence especially if we hit a post pro era one of the issues is that this is also going to be something that is gonna be highly highly scrutinized because the right has already looked at this idea of miscarriage management as being a way of just hiding aboard and they're already looking at statistics of clinics that have and have announced that they have done miscarriage management and saying oh well we don't believe that was actually a miscarriage that was obviously just an abortion that was being done in secret and so when people hear about various states and we've heard this over the years of state legislators trying to pass laws about you know the police you need to file a report when you have a miscarriage or something to that effect with the police this is a way of intimidating women from exercising this option particularly of a medically induced abortion all right well so let me ask you this so two things one is assuming that there is a either an effective or a total overturning of roe v wade what is the do you have a sense of the legal strategy we may be decades away before that legal strategy can be in play at least on the Supreme Court level but to the extent that there is one or there is possibility is there a legal strategy to come back after that a and B what about the symbolic implications of I mean roe v wade made a material and practical difference in in women's lives but it also was a statement that women have rights over you know sovereignty over their own body that it also opened up a whole understanding that reproductive rights was also economic rights what what supplants that so to go to your first question what we would see happening when roe is overturned is probably a state-by-state level of counter to try and get state constitutions to once more include the right to an abortion what we do need to think about though is Roe being overturned is not an end game for the rights what they want is a amendment to the Constitution a person could amend to the Federal Constitution so that abortion is completely illegal all across the country and once that happens and that would be addressed in the same way that we just saw in Ireland where they overturned the Eighth Amendment and then made abortion legal in the country and made a right to an abortion legal all throughout the entire country so the right only well let me rephrase part of the right is only just getting started when it comes to the idea of a returning roe v wade because what they really want to do is make sure that there is a complete and utter federal ban on abortion all over the country the thing is the I would say that the anti-abortion extremists want this but the Republicans in general do not and they do not want this because abortion is the easiest way for them to pick up votes in an election um abortion is the reason why Trump is president right now an abortion quite frankly will be the only reason that he can get reelected if it happens and they don't want to give up something so easy they have so many people especially the people who call themselves pro-life democrats who will go out and vote against absolutely every progressive value that they believe in just as long as they believe that they are saving babies the right doesn't want to get rid of that they don't want to lose that low-hanging fruit so in my opinion there's never gonna be a federal a federal law that makes abortion completely illegal okay and and then the second part the the sort of the symbolic nature of a federal understanding a national understanding that a woman has sovereignty over her own body I mean inherently that's what the Equal Rights Amendment is and that's something that we still need to push and make happen and that's something that they're fighting for in Congress right now and that's why the same people who are opposing it right now are they changed their language as to why they oppose it but in general it's the religious right and they do not like the ER a because it it interferes with their belief that traditional family values means that there is a man who works in a woman who stays home and takes care of the children and that's how God to this family to be the book is handbook for a post ro America Robin Marty thanks for talking to us about it we will put a link at majority dot F M this is I mean and you predict I think that this is going to happen in 2021 after the election really and it it really isn't implicated by the election at this point there's five votes there you know at least there could be you know there could be six theoretically and one of those five could be even a younger more conservative maybe then then even Clarence Thomas so this is there's a certain inevitability to about this then and really important to address I appreciate your time today

30 comments

  1. Welcome to Black Market medical services in Georgia and Alabama. There will be ex medical personnel performing not only abortions but other medical procedures to Georgia and Alabama women in plain looking Georgia and Alabama homes. These states will actually have to spend money trying to locate these illegal activities. There will be baby dumping. And this is the tip of that iceberg.

  2. Most people still do not understand the true nature of modern day orthodox or fundamentalist religiosity: Their fight is not about abortion, not about fertilized eggs, embryos or fetuses – it is all about undoing female emancipation. Religiosity is the last bastion of misogyny. A sacred, sanctified misogyny: God wants it that women are inferior and subordinate to men. The advent of MODERN CONTRACEPTIVES was a turning point in human history. A revolution like hardly any other in human existence. Women (even many self-proclaimed feminists, sadly) seem to have forgotten this fact. Or they do not grasp it in its full meaning. BUT RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS DO.

    (And that is why they WILL attack contraceptives immediately after they repeal Roe v Wade.)

    It is modern contraceptives that made female emancipation, equal treatment and equal rights for women and men, even a possibility. Before that, women were unfree, their biology was writing their fate “into stone”, there was no escaping it (they could become nuns, but even a nun can get raped and “fall” pregnant…).

    Now, women can decide when and if they want to get pregnant and how often – thanks to modern contraceptives. They can learn, study, get good jobs (not only cleaning and nursing but actual “men`s jobs”!). They can chose not to marry, to get a divorce etc. That means: They are free. Thanks to science, they are “normal”, first class humans..

    Religion is against the equality of men and women.

    The Catholics (a clever bunch!) were instantly aware of the abilities of contraceptives. Their pro-life rhetoric is but disguise; they say it out quite often and clearly, what they think about a women`s role in society and what they think about emancipation, feminism and equality (hint: they are adamantly against it).

    Evangelicals may have been late to the party, but now Catholics and Evangelicals form an unholy alliance against emancipation and womens rights. (The UN ICDP Conference in Cairo, Egypt in 1994 brought even a coalition of the Vatican and the highest Islamic authorities against womens reproductive rights and emancipation!).

    But who cares, right? Misogyny is thriving. From Jordan Peterson (a Christian believer) to the Iranian and Saudi regimes, to Bolsonaro`s Brazil, right-wing Europe, the Taliban and other Islamo-fascists, the Vatican – it is a sport to malign “feminists”. The race is on to see who can strip women of their rights the most.

    Good people have to speak out against all misogyny.

    We have to show the general public what “pro-life” really means: An attack against the emancipation of women. An attack against the equality of women and men.

  3. Worse than pre-Roe !! Women where not hunted down for having miscarriages then.

  4. A victory of the religious right, who considers women as third class citizens/people. Why are they able to sway the populace? Because there is zero criticism of religion in the US. The MR is a sad proof for that. The disregard for women as equal human beings (not only among the right) is appalling. Anyone who really cares for women`s rights would fight for true secularism and a retreat of religion from the public realm, a ban of religious schools and home schooling (since both means brainwashing of young, vulnerable and impressable children). Instead, the so called left is putting religion (= an ideology that is put on children in their formative years, a trait that one can change or get rid off) over the rights of 50% of the population (= real people called "women", that are "born" with that trait).

    Thanks for nothing, MR!

  5. Good thing they are banning abortions, we dont want any illegitimate brown babies on welfare or anything………………… 🤔

  6. There's a zygote and an adult in a burning building, but you can only choose to save one.

    Of course you choose the adult, and the abortion argument should end there

  7. Abortion is absolutely heartbreaking for women. We shouldn’t even be talking about this. These men don’t even care about fetuses. They just hate women. Perhaps because they fear us.

  8. Let's be honest,these new laws only effect ironically the middle class. You actually think these laws would effect or apply to the wealthy in these states? HA! The wealthy will continue unfazed to get whatever they want. Now as far as the poor, they often already can't afford an abortion especially since now one often has to travel to even find a clinic. Middle class getting hit again. I wonder when they will realize they have MUCH more in common with us poor folk than they will ever have with the ultra wealthy.

  9. My favorite abortion foe is the white male that preaches about small government and individual rights, while screaming about the abomination of safe, legal abortion access. And by favorite, I mean people that I want to choke with my bare hands.

  10. dont worry many red states are right now fighting against porn also….next up they will ban women from wearing pants….under his eye

  11. I know this isn't a popular subject, thank you for taking the time to cover it and thank you for asking what both men and women can do to protect what's really the most basic human right that is bodily autonomy

  12. Who pays for a child that the state wont allow to be aborted?
    Has anyone given consideration to the mental state of these pregnant women? Im pretty sure chosing to have an abortion is one of the hardest things a woman could do.
    Can i predict another "rosa parks" monent is going to happen?

  13. Not only do I think abortion should be illegal but we also need serious breeding laws in place to combat overpopulation. I am an atheist liberal.

  14. Of course only 1 doctor should be involved with any woman and her decision to get an abortion. Women typically only see one gynecologist. Imagine having to go to not one, not two, but three different doctors to discuss this most personal decision. ESPECIALLY when needing three doctors its for third trimester abortions which are done for dire medical reasons. Carrying a dead or dying baby is bad enough, then you have to explain this awful situation to multiple strangers. These religious zealots can fck off.

  15. The few trying to dictate to the many, back to back street abortions and kids forced to have children to rapists. This has been behind the GOP from the outset. Enough America, stand up and be counted!

  16. This is one of the saddest things I've seen roll out in a 1st World country in a long time… And that's saying something

  17. I hope a bunch of Trumpanzee women die bleeding in their bathtubs after Bubba rapes them and they try to take out the future toothless child with a coat hanger. Seems like just desserts.

  18. There are easy solutions to the ‘pro-life’ argument.

    Two people are involved, so if they want to force a woman to have a baby then they must also force the man to take part. My suggestion would be that, since the woman has to go through nine months of an increasingly burdensome physical process that usually results in lifelong effects, it is only fair that the baby be handed off to the man co-responsible (at any time suitable to the woman).

    Now, I know that some men will object that this is a hazard to their good reputation, but I have a solution for that too. We have very reliable genetic testing now, so it’s simply a matter of every man’s genetic records being accessible to the government.

    Everybody wins. The ‘pro-lifers’ get an extra baby (for the man to raise), men will develop new skills, and the whole issue of forcing just the woman to take responsibility is reduced substantially.

  19. We were faced with the terrible decision of a third trimester abortion we ended up delivering him and NOBODY from these "Catholic or Christian organizations" were supportive of the funeral or burial of the baby but our local Planned Parenthood and other Abortions groups were wonderful and so supportive they were so amazing! They gave us alot of advice, counseling still remain friends to this day! Very luck to have them!

  20. I really don't like what the republicans are doing. But i have to admire the purity in action and conception. Unclouded by any conscience of right and wrong, absolute without any remorse, or delusions of morality, with an unlimited criminal energy completely focused to destroy, conquer and to divide for their goal to rule merciless with an iron fist. It would be really refreshing to have some dems who play the game like this right wing bastards.

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